Militaria Guerre d'Indochine et d'Algérie

Dissertation historique et présentation de souvenirs militaires de 1946 à 1962 de la guerre d\'Indochine aux événements d\'Algérie.


    Bonjour à Tous

    Partagez

    Peter Maritz

    Messages : 6
    Date d'inscription : 12/02/2013

    Bonjour à Tous

    Message  Peter Maritz le Mar 12 Fév - 4:36

    Bonjour. Je suis un étudiant américain, alors j'ai dû traduire ce message. Pardonnez-moi de mes fautes de grammaire. Je fais des recherches guerres d'Indochine et d'Algérie, alors j'essaie de trouver des anciens combattants des deux guerres. J'ai trouvé quelques anciens combattants de l'Algérie mais j'ai du mal à trouver des anciens combattants d'Indochine. Je sais que ce forum n'est pas pour les anciens combattants, mais je suppose que certains d'entre vous pourraient aider. Merci pour l'aide. Mon email est ptmaritz@gmail.com si vous préférez me contacter là-bas.
    avatar
    Blade
    Général d'armée
    Général d'armée

    Messages : 4031
    Date d'inscription : 27/09/2010
    Age : 47
    Localisation : Tout in haut de ch'terril

    Re: Bonjour à Tous

    Message  Blade le Mar 12 Fév - 8:12

    Hi and welcome aboard

    You can write in English without any problem if it's more easy for you.

    See you .


    Peter Maritz

    Messages : 6
    Date d'inscription : 12/02/2013

    Thank you.

    Message  Peter Maritz le Mer 13 Fév - 3:24

    Yes, English is much easier. Thank you very much. Is there any approach that you recommend for finding veterans? None of the veterans' organizations have responded. Let me know if you would like more information on my thesis.
    avatar
    Blade
    Général d'armée
    Général d'armée

    Messages : 4031
    Date d'inscription : 27/09/2010
    Age : 47
    Localisation : Tout in haut de ch'terril

    Re: Bonjour à Tous

    Message  Blade le Mer 13 Fév - 7:59

    Hi ;

    In fact I have no idea ! you are looking for which informations ? May be we could help you ?
    Yes tell us more about your thesis
    avatar
    Padre
    Soldat
    Soldat

    Messages : 160
    Date d'inscription : 07/08/2012

    Re: Bonjour à Tous

    Message  Padre le Mer 13 Fév - 8:07

    Hi guys,

    First of all, tell us the topic of your thesis, it will be helpful for us to make some researches of contacts for you (the issue of your work, the dates, the units, etc...).

    I wrote four years ago a master's dissertation about "The French Riverine Warfare in Indochina 1947-1955" and I'm still in contact with veterans of the French Navy : the problem is that they are mostly not able to write or speak English.... And they begin to be quite old so hurry up :)

    Regards

    P.

    Peter Maritz

    Messages : 6
    Date d'inscription : 12/02/2013

    Thesis

    Message  Peter Maritz le Mer 13 Fév - 14:29

    Thank you both for the offer of help. I am studying the Algerian War as a military and political continuation of the Indochina War. For example, I could discuss paratroopers in Indochina versus paratroopers in Algeria, or I could compare the Navy's role in Algeria to its role in Indochina. It's interesting that you mentioned the Dinassaut, which Bernard Fall called the best unit to come from Indochina. Did you also discuss the Khmer river pirates? Let me know if you'd like more information, and thank you again.
    avatar
    Blade
    Général d'armée
    Général d'armée

    Messages : 4031
    Date d'inscription : 27/09/2010
    Age : 47
    Localisation : Tout in haut de ch'terril

    Re: Bonjour à Tous

    Message  Blade le Mer 13 Fév - 20:03

    Hi both of you ;

    Like i see Padre using English really easy , i'll leave you in his hands As stated by Padre , few veterans speak English and this poses a barrier between you at the beginning .

    About the discussion of the paratroopers in Indochina versus paratroopers in Algeria , the context was not the same .
    Such you have the cause and effect of the first one to the second , named the " the yellow sickness " or the " never again " .
    We can make the parallel with the U.S. Army in Vietnam and the years who followed this war .
    So don't forget that ,during the Indochina war the majority of soldiers were a enlisted soldiers while in Algeria the most soldiers was the conscripts .

    See you .
    avatar
    Padre
    Soldat
    Soldat

    Messages : 160
    Date d'inscription : 07/08/2012

    Re: Bonjour à Tous

    Message  Padre le Mer 13 Fév - 21:59

    Hi there,

    Your topic sounds great. But comparing the Indochina and Algeria wars won't be an easy job, because there are so many differences :

    - as Blade said, the French fighters in South-Eastern Asia were exclusively volunteers & enlisted men v.s. conscripts in Algeria.

    - the combat fields were not the same (desert and mountain in Algeria, tropical area in Indochina) + Algeria was 3 French "Départements", Indochina was a colony.

    - there was a dichotomy beetween the nature of the ennemies and also the feeling of the natives regarding the French Army.

    - the material and the main strategies evoluted a lot beetween those wars (development of the Helicopter warfare, no parajumps any more in Algeria, ...) If you manage to find the books by David Galula - they have been translated for the Marines School, do not hesitate to reade them : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Galula

    - the spirit of the fighters changed : in Indochina, the French Army was in a process of rebuilt, after the victory of 1945. In Algeria, it suffers of the defeat of Dien Bien Phu, with a feeling of revenge.

    - the International Relations context was different (US and NATO supporting France in Indochina, but not during the Suez crisis and the Algeria War).

    I also wrote about "the Rebirth of the Riverine Warfare in the Modern Armies" that compares the French and US riverine forces in Indochina/Vietnam with the development of a riverine force during the second Iraq War : http://sd-2.archive-host.com/membres/up/1611755199770249/MEMOIRE.pdf

    It could be in tersting for you to analyse how the French Doctrinas regarding the mobile riverine forces and the helicopters strategies developed in Indochina then in Algeria, have inspired the US officers during the 60'-70'.

    Best regards,


    Padre.

    Peter Maritz

    Messages : 6
    Date d'inscription : 12/02/2013

    Differences

    Message  Peter Maritz le Jeu 14 Fév - 5:10

    It is these differences that define my thesis. I can say why Paris used only volunteers in Indochina but also draftees in Algeria. After all, the CEFEO had a shortage of (European) manpower, so the Army realized that it needed more soldiers, whom it could obtain by draft, in Algeria. I am tracking this improvement of ideas. I was aware of helicopter development (There were several dozen in Indochina and several hundred in Algeria, compared to America's twelve thousand in the Vietnam War), but there was riverine warfare in Algeria? Are you referring to the naval blockade of Algeria, Morocco, and Tunisia, or did it penetrate rivers such as the Chelif? You are an expect on this subject, so I appreciate your advice.

    As far as veterans, it's no problem that they speak no English. I have French-speaking friends who would be happy to help. By the way, I don't want to take advantage: you should no that I am a seventeen-year-old high-school student (versus a student in college), but I plan to continue this subject in the future because it interests me so much. Thank you for the help.
    avatar
    Padre
    Soldat
    Soldat

    Messages : 160
    Date d'inscription : 07/08/2012

    Re: Bonjour à Tous

    Message  Padre le Jeu 14 Fév - 7:02

    Hi,

    I'm very impressed by the fact that a so "young" American student is interested in the French colonial wars and seems to know a lot about this topic.

    Regarding the following sentence :
    After all, the CEFEO had a shortage of (European) manpower, so the Army realized that it needed more soldiers, whom it could obtain by draft, in Algeria
    , we can also say :

    1/ that France was not able to send conscripts in Indochina. Our Army was very poor in 1945 : a lot of young men did not do their military service during the Occupation, most of potential conscripts just went out from the prisoners camps in Germany in 1945, the equipment and structures of the Armée d'Armistice was ghostly. The CEFEO was mostly composed by the former fighters of the Armée de Libération (FFF), colonial units and Legionnaires (former german soldiers who fought during the WWII...).

    2/ the Algeria War was not regarded as a "War" but as a an "Opération de Maintien de l'Ordre" (maintenance of law and order' operation). So it was politically difficult to send an Expeditionary Force with professional soldiers. That could also explain the fact that conscripts have been sent there.

    There was no riverine units in Algeria, only some coastal operations in order to control the suspects ships that could deliver weapons and medics to the FLN/ALN.

    Regards,

    P.

    Peter Maritz

    Messages : 6
    Date d'inscription : 12/02/2013

    Re: Bonjour à Tous

    Message  Peter Maritz le Jeu 14 Fév - 8:10

    Counterinsurgency has interested me for several years, and Algeria became one of the most-successful examples of counterinsurgency, yet Indochina and its failures inspired the successes of Algeria. Plus, many veterans will have died when I am twenty or thirty. It's best to interview now, when there's time. Are the veterans whom you know comfortable speaking about their service? I don't know about men of the navy, but infantrymen and paratroopers who served in Indochina like to forget what they saw. Strange that veterans of Algeria feel most comfortable with their past—as far as the four whom I interviewed have told.

    I have a basic familiarity with France's role in the European Theater. However, I know most about France's role in the Japanese occupation of Indochina; this information is new to me. France lacked enough able-bodied men beginning World War I and World War II, correct? This shortage extended to the Indochina War? In addition, Paris refused a draft on political ground. The French, who had little interest in the Indochina War, would have prevented a draft for the sake of a distant colony (however valuable it was).

    At first, Paris tried to deny war in Indochina. It called the conflict another colonial rebellion. It only excepted that it was fighting a war, a massive one, when America began sending aid in the 1950s. Indochina went from a colonial rebellion to a war on communism in terms of propaganda. You mentioned that Algeria, on the other hand, was part of France. France could never say at the same time that Algeria was part of France but that there was war in Algeria, for France could never acknowledge war with itself. France's last civil war ended 1598 (excluding the War in the Vendée).

    Yes, blockades by land and sea succeeded in Algeria beyond compare. A legionnaire told me of one incident where paras boarded a Dutch ship. I've heard of Dutch smugglers, never Dutch gunrunners.
    avatar
    Blade
    Général d'armée
    Général d'armée

    Messages : 4031
    Date d'inscription : 27/09/2010
    Age : 47
    Localisation : Tout in haut de ch'terril

    Re: Bonjour à Tous

    Message  Blade le Jeu 14 Fév - 19:58

    Peter Maritz a écrit:
    I am a seventeen-year-old high-school student (versus a student in college), but I plan to continue this subject in the future because it interests me so much. Thank you for the help.

    Hi Guys ;

    Wow ! You knock my socks off !!!! a US teen who is instructed and interested by our history and who isn't in college . How did you come to it ??? Because when i was in USA in the 80' many teens of my age thought France was in Canada or a country of the Third World . I have again full of anecdotes on the subject :a14: unfortunately my English is less better than it was at this time . So ! With Padre , you are in good hands

    See you

    Peter Maritz

    Messages : 6
    Date d'inscription : 12/02/2013

    Re: Bonjour à Tous

    Message  Peter Maritz le Jeu 14 Fév - 20:06

    Your English is much better than my French, which I should have learnt to speak. It would make research easier. I can't speak for most Americans, but a worldly education is important. Many Americans know too much American history and too little world history. Indochina and Algeria interest me because they show evolution of counterinsurgency and impacted later counterinsurgency. Some of the methods were brilliant. I attend school here.

    Contenu sponsorisé

    Re: Bonjour à Tous

    Message  Contenu sponsorisé


      La date/heure actuelle est Mar 21 Nov - 11:45